The Audacity Tapes™

What if one of our most fundamental assumptions about land is wrong?
For centuries, land in the United States has been tied to wealth, power, race, and who gets to belong. But for farmer, food justice activist, and author Leah Penniman, the very idea that land is something we can own demands a deeper examination.
In this episode, Leah and I explore the systems and histories embedded in our relationship with the earth, from food apartheid and Black land dispossession to the Afro-Indigenous traditions that offer a radically different understanding of ownership, responsibility, and belonging.
But beneath this conversation is an even bigger question: What changes when we stop asking what belongs to us and begin asking what we belong to?
In This Episode, We Talk About:
Why Leah believes the history of Black Americans and the land is far more complex than the story we've been taught
What we fail to understand when we treat land primarily as property and an economic asset
Why Leah uses the term “food apartheid” and what it reveals about power within our food system
The connection between Black land ownership, independence, and systems designed to maintain economic control
What Afro-Indigenous farming traditions might teach us at a moment of escalating climate calamity
The relationship between spirituality, justice, and how we understand our responsibility to the earth
Why Leah's newest book, Children of the Land, takes her work into the realm of parenting and the next generation
What responsibility we have to plant seeds for a future we may never see
Key Moments
00:00 | The Land Is Not Ours to Own01:13 | Finding Belonging in the Natural World05:23 | Reclaiming the Land After Generations of Trauma08:40 | We Belong to the Land13:36 | Food Apartheid: Who Built the System?20:46 | The Audacity to Farm23:18 | Carrying Seeds Into an Unknown Future31:41 | When the Earth Is a Relative, Not a Thing46:47 | The Seeds We Plant for People We'll Never Meet
About Leah Penniman
Leah Penniman is a Black Kreyol farmer, mother, activist, author, scientist, earth-lover, and African Traditional Priest who has been tending the soil and organizing for a racially just food system for 30 years.
She is the Co-Founder and Farm Director of Soul Fire Farm in Grafton, New York, an Afro-Indigenous training farm dedicated to food and land sovereignty. Soul Fire Farm facilitates farmer training for Black and Brown people, a no-cost farm food distribution program for communities surviving food apartheid, and domestic and international organizing toward equity in the food system.
Leah is the author of Farming While Black: Soul Fire Farm's Practical Guide to Liberation on the Land and Black Earth Wisdom: Soulful Conversations with Black Environmentalists. Her forthcoming book, Children of the Land: Kincentric Parenting at Soul Fire Farm, explores village-based care, kinship, and raising the next generation in relationship with land and community.
Connect with Leah Penniman
Soul Fire Farmhttps://www.soulfirefarm.org/
Farming While Blackhttps://www.farmingwhileblack.org/
Black Earth Wisdomhttps://www.blackearthwisdom.org/
ResourcesHoward Thurman, “The Sound of the Genuine”1980 Commencement Speech at Spelman Collegehttps://youtu.be/QRKCfbV8eBU?si=JuKTn8av6hYiWIOm
 
Continue the Conversation
The thinking continues beyond the mic. Explore essays, reflections, and extended conversations on Substack:
https://substack.com/@robbinjorgensen
Connect with Robbin Jorgensen:
https://www.linkedin.com/in/robbinjorgensen/
Supporting Sponsor
As a woman navigating financial decisions — especially when the system wasn’t built with you in mind — having the right partner matters.
For three decades, Godfrey Financial has intentionally centered women in financial decision-making — not as an afterthought, but as leaders.
In a field where women are often expected to sit to the side, Godfrey Financial places women at the head of the table — creating space where women don’t just discuss confidence and agency, but experience it in practice.
Learn more at:https://godfreyfinancial.com
 

Five years after the Taliban returned to power in Afghanistan, the world risks becoming accustomed to what should never be acceptable.
Professor Karima Bennoune and women rights defender in Afghanistan Zarqa Yaftali discuss the newly launched International Declaration on Gender Apartheid and Its Destructive Consequences, why naming gender apartheid matters, and how the Declaration can become a tool for action.
The conversation explores the international community’s growing normalization of the Taliban, the moral conviction behind their work, and why what is happening in Afghanistan is a warning for women everywhere.
In This Episode
What Afghan women and girls are experiencing five years into Taliban rule
The history and legal meaning of gender apartheid
Why the International Declaration on Gender Apartheid was created
How international law can become leverage for women on the ground
The danger of normalizing the Taliban and gender apartheid
The personal roots of Karima and Zarqa’s moral conviction
Why Afghanistan is a warning for women’s rights globally
What meaningful solidarity and practical action look like now
Key Moments00:00 – Introduction: Karima Bennoune & Zarqa Yaftali01:42 – Zarqa’s Story: Growing Up Under Taliban Rule09:13 – Karima’s Story: The Inheritance of Moral Conviction12:53 – Five Years Later: What Has the World Stopped Seeing?17:23 – Why We Must Name Gender Apartheid33:00 – The Declaration Against Gender Apartheid45:06 – Where Does Moral Conviction Come From?51:35 – Are We Normalizing the Taliban?1:02:02 – Afghanistan Is a Warning: What the World Must Do Now
About Karima Bennoune
Professor Karima Bennoune is an internationally recognized human rights lawyer and the Lewis M. Simes Professor of Law at the University of Michigan Law School. She served as the United Nations Special Rapporteur in the field of cultural rights from 2015–2021 and has spent decades working at the intersection of international law, women's human rights, cultural rights and fundamentalism.
She chaired the drafting group behind the International Declaration on Gender Apartheid and Its Destructive Consequences and is the author of Your Fatwa Does Not Apply Here: Untold Stories from the Fight Against Muslim Fundamentalism.
About Zarqa Yaftali
Zarqa Yaftali is a women rights defender in Afghanistan, Founder and Executive Director of the Women and Children Research and Advocacy Network, and a 2026 Zayed Award for Human Fraternity honoree.
Her advocacy is rooted in lived experience. As a teenager during the first Taliban regime, Zarqa attended an underground school established by her mother after girls were prohibited from attending school. Today, from exile, she continues working to advance education, freedom and human rights for Afghan women and girls, including efforts to provide online educational opportunities to girls inside Afghanistan.
Resources
Karima spoke during the conversation about the profound influence of her father, Mahfoud Bennoune, an Algerian professor, anthropologist and outspoken opponent of fundamentalism. His work and legacy are preserved online:
www.mahfoudbennoune.com
Take Action
The launch of the International Declaration on Gender Apartheid and Its Destructive Consequences is not the end of the work. It's the beginning.
Karima and Zarqa call on women human rights defenders, civil society organizations, governments, scholars, jurists, journalists and concerned people everywhere to use the Declaration: share it, translate it, build advocacy tools around it, convene conversations about it and help keep the rights of Afghan women on the international agenda.
https://www.genderapartheiddeclaration.org/
Continue the Conversation
The thinking continues beyond the mic. Explore essays, reflections, and extended conversations on Substack:
https://substack.com/@robbinjorgensen
Connect with Robbin Jorgensen:
https://www.linkedin.com/in/robbinjorgensen/
Supporting Sponsor
As a woman navigating financial decisions — especially when the system wasn’t built with you in mind — having the right partner matters.
For three decades, Godfrey Financial has intentionally centered women in financial decision-making — not as an afterthought, but as leaders.
In a field where women are often expected to sit to the side, Godfrey Financial places women at the head of the table — creating space where women don’t just discuss confidence and agency, but experience it in practice.
Learn more at:https://godfreyfinancial.com

Episode Description
What if one of the most fundamental assumptions about our economy is wrong?
For more than 25 years, Saru Jayaraman has challenged the systems that determine who gets paid, who holds power, and whose work is valued. At the center of that fight is a staggering reality: the federal tipped minimum wage remains just $2.13 an hour, unchanged since 1991.
But this conversation goes far beyond tipping.
Saru traces the history of a wage system rooted in slavery and emancipation, challenges the belief that higher wages hurt business, and reveals what decades of organizing have taught her about concentrated power and the personal cost of confronting it.
Together, we explore the connection between economic insecurity and democracy, the difference between a minimum wage and a living wage, and a question with implications far beyond the restaurant industry: What happens when people no longer believe the economy or democracy is working for them?
In This Episode, We Talk About...
The history behind America's $2.13 tipped minimum wage and why it hasn't changed since 1991
What seven states reveal about the argument that higher wages destroy restaurant economies
The Denny's shareholder call that exposed a startling contradiction about wages and business growth
Why the fight has shifted from minimum wage to living wage
The connection between economic insecurity, power, and people's faith in democracy
What Saru and her family have endured for challenging one of America's most powerful lobbying forces
Why, after more than 25 years, she still believes transformational change is possible
Key Moments
00:00 Introduction01:36 Rethinking Our Economy, Democracy, and Humanity03:48 The History Behind America’s Tipped Wage System07:51 What We’ve Gotten Wrong About Economics12:28 Why the Tipped Wage Is Still $2.1315:02 What Happens When States Pay a Full Minimum Wage17:45 The Denny’s Revelation and the Economics of Higher Wages23:06 What Has Democracy Done for You Lately?35:02 When Challenging Power Becomes Dangerous
About Saru Jayaraman
Saru Jayaraman is an attorney, author, researcher, organizer, and one of the country's leading advocates for restaurant and service workers. She is the co-founder of Restaurant Opportunities Centers United and president of One Fair Wage, where she has spent more than two decades organizing workers and challenging the subminimum wage system.
Named one of New York magazine's "Influentials," a CNN Visionary Woman, and a White House Champion of Change, Saru's work sits at the intersection of economic justice, gender, race, power, and democracy.
Her forthcoming book, What Has Democracy Done for You Lately?, explores the growing connection between economic insecurity and people's faith in democratic institutions. Throughout her work, Saru argues for an economy in which people are able not simply to survive, but to thrive.
Connect with Saru Jayaraman
One Fair Wage
Saru JayaramanSaru's new book:https://thenewpress.org/books/what-has-democracy-done-for-me-lately/
Take Action: Join the Living Wage for All Movement
Your voice can help change what work is worth in America.
Living Wage for All is building a national movement to ensure that no one working full-time is forced to live in poverty. This is about more than raising wages. It is about giving millions of people greater economic security, strengthening communities, and building an economy that works because more people have the ability to participate in it.
Add your voice. Contact your members of Congress. Help build the political power necessary to make a living wage a reality for every worker in America.
https://livingwageforall.org/
Continue the Conversation
The thinking continues beyond the mic. Explore essays, reflections, and extended conversations on Substack:
https://substack.com/@robbinjorgensen
Connect with Robbin Jorgensen:
https://www.linkedin.com/in/robbinjorgensen/
Supporting Sponsor
As a woman navigating financial decisions — especially when the system wasn’t built with you in mind — having the right partner matters.
For three decades, Godfrey Financial has intentionally centered women in financial decision-making — not as an afterthought, but as leaders.
In a field where women are often expected to sit to the side, Godfrey Financial places women at the head of the table — creating space where women don’t just discuss confidence and agency, but experience it in practice.
Learn more at:https://godfreyfinancial.com
 

Episode Description
What does it really mean to lead with integrity?
For Heather Robertson Fortner, leadership isn't measured solely by performance, profit, or position. It's measured by congruence: the alignment between what we say we value and how we choose to live, lead, and serve.
As CEO of SignatureFD, Heather has challenged the traditional assumptions of business leadership by building a culture grounded in generosity, authenticity, and the belief that love belongs in leadership. In this conversation, we explore what happens when success is no longer the goal, but the byproduct of living your values.
Together, we examine the relationship between identity and achievement, why generosity must begin with ourselves before it extends outward, how motherhood reshaped Heather's understanding of purpose, and why the greatest legacy any leader leaves behind is the example they set for others.
This is a conversation about choosing integrity over image, generosity over scarcity, and becoming the person you hope others believe you already are.
In This Episode, We Talk About...
Why Heather believes leadership begins with congruence between values and actions
How redefining success transformed both her leadership and her life
The role generosity plays in building healthy organizations and stronger communities
Why leading with love requires courage—not weakness
How becoming a mother reshaped her understanding of identity and achievement
The importance of creating workplaces where people genuinely belong
Why your legacy is built through everyday decisions, not extraordinary moments
How living what you believe influences the next generation
Key Moments
00:00 Introduction02:14 Defining Leadership Through Values08:42 Identity Beyond Achievement15:36 Why Congruence Matters23:11 Generosity as a Leadership Practice31:04 Creating Cultures of Belonging40:28 The Legacy We Leave Our Children48:15 Leading with Love
About Heather Robertson Fortner
Heather Robertson Fortner is the CEO of SignatureFD, a nationally recognized wealth management firm known for its people-first culture and values-driven approach to leadership. Throughout her career, Heather has championed the belief that authentic leadership is rooted in integrity, generosity, and genuine human connection.
A sought-after speaker and advocate for values-based leadership, she has challenged conventional business thinking by demonstrating that organizations can pursue both exceptional performance and extraordinary care for people. Her work continues to inspire leaders to align their actions with their deepest convictions while building cultures where individuals and communities can thrive.
Connect with Heather Robertson Fortner
https://www.linkedin.com/in/heatherfortner/
https://signaturefd.com/
Continue the Conversation
The thinking continues beyond the mic. Explore essays, reflections, and extended conversations on Substack:
https://substack.com/@robbinjorgensen
Connect with Robbin Jorgensen:
https://www.linkedin.com/in/robbinjorgensen/
Supporting Sponsor
As a woman navigating financial decisions — especially when the system wasn’t built with you in mind — having the right partner matters.
For three decades, Godfrey Financial has intentionally centered women in financial decision-making — not as an afterthought, but as leaders.
In a field where women are often expected to sit to the side, Godfrey Financial places women at the head of the table — creating space where women don’t just discuss confidence and agency, but experience it in practice.
Learn more at:
https://godfreyfinancial.com